17.1 Both Teams?

An appendix:  I was asked about the previous chapter’s claim that the gift of tongues can be heard and understood by all angels, both holy and unholy.  I, too, had heard the lesson, “If you speak in tongues, only God knows what you’re saying and the demons don’t understand you.”  Which sounds nice… until you realize that there are no scriptures that teach that, and when critically thinking about the premise, I raise an eyebrow.

I think, in lieu of any scriptures specifically teaching one way or another, I’m going to write the questions I asked myself and just let you ponder the same questions.  Then you can agree with me or disagree, but at least the thoughts are out there.

First I should ask, “Do you agree that the demons started off as regular holy angels of the Lord?”  I take this for granted, but shouldn’t assume you do.  My belief comes from Revelation 12:7-9:

Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world – he was thrown down to earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

Now I think you already know that I think this is describing events that happened before Genesis 1:1, which I explained in depth before but I’ll hit the bullet points here quickly:  Satan the “ancient serpent” was already down on the earth in Eden; When the 72 return to Jesus rejoicing about the demons submitting to them, he oddly replies saying he remembers when he saw Satan thrown down to earth; Satan is definitely already here deceiving the whole world, so 12:9 isn’t describing a future state… Those are the points at a high level.  I think the rebellious angels became what we know as demons and principalities.  Maybe you agree.

So then – and this depends on whether you agree or not that demons are angels that were thrown down to the earth as a form of prison sentence – here’s my first Eyebrow Question:

If I get thrown in prison, do I forget how to speak English?  Why then would the fallen angels forget how to speak the tongues of angels?

Second question comes from Jude 1:9:

But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, was disputing about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a blasphemous judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you.”

Do you suppose that conversation happened in English?  Ya, so… tongues of angels more likely, right?  “The devil” could understand Michael just fine.  Unless you think Michael was busting out with the Black Speech of Mordor for that exchange, while Elrond got a headache.

Third question is cut from the same fabric.  In Job 1:6:

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.  The LORD said to Satan, “From where have you come?”  Satan answered the LORD and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.”

Same question – do we think this conversation happened in English?  And at this point, Satan’s purview is, again, already the earth (per the above on "when, in history, the rebellious angels were thrown down").  Bad guy speaking angel.

Fourth question is similar; looking at Matthew 4:3, where Jesus has gone out “into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.”  And they’re talking to each other, and I ask myself, do we think that conversation happened in English?  In Aramaic?

When asked who Jesus was, and not having a comfortable category to put him in, a portion of the crowds said, “He’s a prophet,” or, “He’s Elijah.”  Jesus is the author of prophecy and if all things are created by him and through him (which they are) then the tongues of angels are like,  literally one of his first languages – at least way before any language that men came up with, and way before any language that came out of Babel or any language since.  It’s total speculation, but there’s a good chance his conversation with the devil was held in a spiritual language that doesn’t exist among men.

The fifth question is a little more real-world practical.  The methods of witches and worshippers of Satan are well-documented by Hollywood, which is simultaneously trying to both desensitize us (“That’s just the movies.”) and enamour us with the practice of summoning demonic presences.  In films we always see summoning spells where some symbols are drawn, some candles and artifacts or ingredients are provided (and always blood), and… the magic words!  Something has to be spoken!  What language do we suppose that is?

And similarly – next question – when you got the old Catholic priest doing his best to “exorcise” a demon and he’s trembling and holding up his rosary and cross, and he’s reading aloud from a book… in Latin??  Hmm yeah.  Demons only speak Latin, huh?  Does that make sense to you?

But how about at your church services or other experiences – When someone is casting out a demon, don’t you often hear them move between English and tongues of angels?  Which angel do you think they’re addressing when they’re speaking that way?

Question seven is kinda like the flip-side of the coin on casting out demons.  It is also well-documented that worshippers of Satan interact with demons regularly.  They make contracts with various demons and invite demons into their bodies to receive power (in exchange for pain and torment).  Those contracts create spiritual markings on a human.  Things we can’t see but that exist in the spirit.  The demons, for their part, read the spiritual marks that are applied to the humans that make those contracts.  That’s part of how one demon knows how to stay away from a stronger demon’s “territory”.

This is written in the many testimonies of those who have been saved out of that world.

Tangentially, how do you think “regular people” who need to have a demon cast out of them got into that state?  Not usually by explicitly asking for a demon to inhabit them!  A contract was made in some tricky fashion, which gave the demon permission to enter.  That habitation also comes with a spiritual mark.  Not my rules; not inventing this; this is the testimony of those who have intentionally worshipped demons and learned the mechanics of it.

Let’s add, on top of the point about the marks, that all angels are ancient beyond anything that exists on earth.  Pretty much, they’ve seen it all.  How incredibly dangerous demons are, if you approach them lightly.  They can see stuff, read stuff, and know all kinds of stuff about you – and know exactly how to manipulate you, if you were to try to interact with one apart from your Helper.  They know the kinds of decisions you make, cause they can read you like a book.

Now let’s ask ourselves, if we’re speaking tongues of angels, we’re basically entering their turf; Why would I think I’m pulling one over on them – ever?

Thank God for angelic protection and the guidance of our Helper.

I kinda feel like I’m beating a horse here, because at this point you either get it and agree, or get it and still prefer what you were taught before.

There's that one passage in Romans 8:26 where Paul writes that sometimes we don’t know what to pray, and says, “Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.”  My response? “This is no description of the gift of tongues,” and it says so in plain sight: no words involved!  Sobbing in intercession, among other things that I’ve seen and experienced, fits this description.

The very last thing I’ll ask isn’t even about tongues.  I have also heard that demons can’t read your thoughts, only God can.  Another scripture-free claim; and I have a question about that, too.  The basis of it contains an important and very useful lesson, regardless of which way we answer the question, so let’s go.

I saw this article, with video, where they showed a human neuron building a pathway in the brain to carry a thought.  Memories and habits flow along existing neural pathways, but in this case the pathway was being created – after the thought existed, to enable the brain to “think” the thought.

At that moment I was smacked by the realization that all original thought exists before any physical evidence of it exists.  Thought is purely spirit, purely supernatural, and the creation manifests its pattern as a consequence.  And of course, this is what created the world, so it makes perfect sense that we, being made in God’s likeness, would also operate with the same mechanic.

I explained this to some friends and then asked, “What’s the most frequent spiritual experience we have?” and someone shouted, “Worship!” (they meant singing music) and I answered instead:

“Having a thought.”

This is the work of a disciple:  We have three types of “voices” that enter our minds by spirit before any physical path exists in our brains to carry them.  The discipline we learn is to separate the wheat from the chaff.

We learn the voice of the Shepherd, the voice of the Father, the voice of the Spirit of truth, and even sometimes holy angels bring us messages, and we learn to trust those speakers.  All of this happens in silence and before neurons build new paths to carry the thoughts.

Then, the most common voice is our own.  We aren’t just sitting here in the middle of a tug-of-war between divorced parents without a voice of our own.  I would say that “free will” could be rephrased as “free thought”.  Because you’re not going to do something before you think that something, weigh it, and accept or reject it. So your will begins with your own spiritual voice.  Your soul’s own voice in the heavens.  You get your own ideas, and then your brain makes its neurons build paths to carry them.  Spirit first, and then manifestation in nature.

And thennnnn there’s the thoughts that are from “the other team” (to keep with our theme).  If we reject these thoughts, we don’t form the strong neural pathways that carry “habitual thought”.  Learning the nature of those voices, and how to reject them, is also doing the work of a disciple.

So that leaves us with a picture of our state: constantly engaging with the supernatural in a process of learning to discipline our minds.  Learning to take command of a battlefield, and learning one aspect of what it means when Paul says, “Do you not know that we are to judge angels?” in 1 Cor. 6:3.  We’re sometimes judging between the voices of both types.

Starting with an easy question:  Do you believe that both the Lord’s team and Satan’s team can present thoughts to you, in addition to your own thoughts?  I mean, I’ve heard people who blame every little thing on Satan influencing them, and even though that’s nonsense, the premise is based on something true, in my opinion.

Now comes my final and controversial question.

Through our thoughts, we build concrete positions in our minds by having internal discussions with ourselves.  We invent real things, and write books and millions of other things because we have conversations with ourselves, bringing out one new thought after another.  An internal dialogue is sort of like a two-way street.

Clearly the Lord and the Spirit and the Son and the holy angels also interject into our thoughts.  And we answer them, too.  Like the – “Son of man what do you see?”  “I see a flying scroll.” – type exchange.  Two-way street.

So, it’s uncomfortable to think about, but… why would it only be a one-way street with a demon?  The whole mechanism of thought – Inspired in spirit > Manifested in nature > Inspiration followed by response, over and over, constantly – it’s just… this is how it seems to work.  So why would it only work that way two-thirds of the time?

In defense of the alternative, the pitch that demons don’t know our thoughts, I could put forth this pretty strong hypothesis:

Jesus learned what the Lord’s will was by praying and learning it.  And the purpose of his overall mission was to take back dominion from Satan and restore it to men.  And if Satan had known that was the end game, there’s no way he would’ve let Jesus be crucified and re-plant the seed of the Christ, the tree of life!

The demons clearly can’t read every thought.  There would be no secrets and thus nothing “into which angels long to look”.  The Lord can surely read thoughts!  He says so in Psalm 139 and Isaiah 66.  There’s no way any angel has the same level of access to us.

But perhaps there’s an element of, “If you give it your attention, there can be a conversation.”  That’s true of the holy angels: Genesis 31 proves it when Jacob is dreaming:

Then the angel of God said to me in the dream, ‘Jacob,’ and I said, ‘Here I am!’ And he said, ‘Lift up your eyes and see…’

So if the holy angels have conversations with us in the realm of thought rather than speech, it’s a tough sell to say that the Other Team can drop thoughts into us, but is then forced to watch with curiosity as to how it’s gonna play out.  “I’ll tell her to be pissed off about her mom cuz she usually goes into a screaming fit after that!” <giggle-giggle> “Wait, how come it’s not working today? Dag-nabbit! Well I guess there’s always tomorrow.”

I guess my point is that even the common teaching that demons can’t know your thoughts also deserves some critical consideration.  There doesn’t seem to be a clear one-answer-fits-all.  Why do we care?  Because there’s danger in presumption.  If we think one thing is always true, all the time, while in reality that thing doesn’t happen to be that way, we can be tricked.

Bring it back to something I wrote longgggg ago, about how some Christians don’t believe they can have a demon in them.  “They can kick you around and bully you from the outside, but they can’t get into you because the Holy Spirit has sealed you,” -- incorrectly thinking that the seal is like a vault seal. Apparently C.S. Lewis taught this.  Not only does it fly in the face of Jesus’ own teaching and half the globe’s actual experience with demons in churches, but there’s only one guy who benefits from that teaching: the demon that gets to live in the water that someone never tries to cast him out of -- because that someone has been tricked into a state of Confident Unbelief.

You get me.  And you're thinking, “A tiny, wee little appendix, huh?”  Yep, I’m thinking the same thing – sorry, ma-bad!

Because I sure don’t know very much about "what exactly happens in heaven", all I have is today’s point: some simple questions seem to have answers that contradict the standard church teaching, and teaching can be dangerous when it’s wrong.

Thank you – always – for your time.

Garrison